Baglaka’s Story by Moona - Newham Community Project
Baglaka
0:00:00
I'm originally from Hungary. I arrived to the UK in 2003 on a gap year and I decided to stay and meanwhile I got married and had two children and moved to Newham. - Can you share a bit about the region or the country you migrated from and how East London initially appeared to you in comparison? - Definitely. I come from a very closed up country where there are only white people, so there was a definite cultural shock upon my arrival to London. But I already studied English back home and law as well, so I was open to embrace a multicultural society. I really wanted to, because I didn't feel comfortable back home at all. It's very racist and xenophobic, even 20 years ago, and anti-Semitic, and I was never comfortable with that.
0:00:48
I had many challenges as a recent migrant, and very low income. My husband abandoned us on and off. I was with two small children with No Recourse to Public Funds, not able to work, not having food. Back then there was no help available. So it was really challenging but I always met nice people who helped me out in the way and they steered me towards education. It's quite tough and challenging on a daily basis. The school environment is not good. - And also you have some fear of Islamophobia. - Yes, all sorts of layers of discrimination. Discrimination against being white, for being Eastern European, for Muslims discriminate me too. And then Eastern Europeans also look down on me for having mixed children and Black people are not always a fan of Asian people, there is tension, and I tell everyone just to forget all these things.
0:01:50
We're living, we all have to get along. My husband was on and off, coming and going as he pleased. I was with two children under five and there was no help, only the local children's center who half pitied me, half looked down on me, and social services were always around the corner to keep checking on me also, blaming me for not having the resources, not understanding what No Recourse to Public Funds actually means. I had a partial recourse later on, but even that wasn't enough for sustenance. - Okay, so you don't have access to community groups? - No, there was nothing. Thirteen years ago there was nothing. Only the children's centre would give me youth clothes, but often I wouldn't be eating. There was nothing. I don't even know how I managed. I just lived from one day to the next for many years.
All audio transcripts (7)
Harris’ Story by Ansar - Swadhinata Trust
Harris Ali
0:00:00
My main school was Old Church Nursery, which is just around the corner, and then to Marion Richardson.
Ansar
0:00:05
Tell me more about Marion Richardson.
Harris Ali
0:00:06
Well it was very diverse at the time, even, in the 70s. While we were growing up, there were many different families from different backgrounds, mainly from Bangladeshi and Pakistani and Indian background and obviously there were, the local people, the white people that were living around here as well I can talk a bit more about, you know, what happened back in them days in regards to racism and all that, but I don't know if you want me to answer these questions, yeah?
Ansar
0:00:40
Yeah, you talk about whatever you used to....
Harris Ali
0:00:44
So yeah, the experience of school in Marion Richardson was... was running the gauntlet sort of thing so as you're going to school you're you're thinking you know whether you're gonna be attacked or not, saying that my mum used to take me to school and she used to carry a milk bottle purely for the reason of you know because you might get attacked.
Ansar
0:01:09
So this is what you might get while going to school? - Yeah. - Who by?
Harris Ali
0:01:13
By the local White skinheads or National Front or whatever they were at the time. I don't see any of the faces no more. Maybe they've made loads of money and moved out, probably somewhere down Essex and belong to the ICF if you know what I mean.
Ansar
0:01:32
And this is while you went to primary school?
Harris Ali
0:01:36
Primary school, yeah.
Ansar
0:01:39
And was it often? Or...
Harris Ali
0:01:40
Well the fear was always in your head so every time you're coming out the house you're thinking of like yeah whether you're gonna be attacked or not.
Ansar
0:01:51
were you attacked?
Harris Ali
0:01:52
many times, many times I've been chased, attacked my mom including was with us at one point when she was chucking milk bottles at you know boys that were attacking us and they was like me and my brothers We just walking down the road just - Yeah, and is that how you coped with Racism or - yeah, I mean I got on with White people, you know But then again, I was also scared of some of them as well But yeah, I knew racism was there - I think it was worse than Oxford, or not worse, but you know it was completely - Yeah, it's a night and day difference because those lot over there in Canonbury Island they're proper, you know.
Ansar
0:02:37
Yeah.
Ansar
0:02:41
Okay.
Harris Ali
0:02:42
But the images were like, okay, National Front sort of image.
Ansar
0:02:44
Yeah.
Ansar
0:02:46
And...
Harris Ali
0:02:47
Yeah. And... Well they were the Mods.
Ansar
0:02:48
Yeah.
Harris Ali
0:02:49
Yeah, so you used to have like the Teddy Boys and you had the Mods.
Ansar
0:02:51
Yeah.
Harris Ali
0:02:51
So I was hanging about with these mods over there
Ansar
0:02:53
Oh yeah.
Ansar
0:02:54
So how long were you in?
Harris Ali
0:02:56
I was here for a year.
Ansar
0:02:57
Oh okay.
Harris Ali
0:02:58
And then I come back to East London again and then I finish my school life in St Paul's Way.
Jay’s Story by Annabella - Solo Researcher
Jay
0:00:00
When we were younger, there was a lot of racism. Very big racism in Tower Hamlets. - Yes, I can imagine.- 80s, 90s, it was terrible.
Annabella
0:00:08
So you lived through all of that, how old were you?
Jay
0:00:10
So I was in my early teenage years, when Stephen Lawrence got stabbed in Greenwich.
Annabella
0:00:16
Okay.
Jay
0:00:18
Now that was an extreme version of racism. We had similar versions here. There was attacks going on. Mid 80s, late 80s, I went to secondary school, you know, open racism and they would call us names. It was very common. So when we were 9, 10, 11, 12, all the way up until 14, 15, we all Bangladeshis stuck together because if we didn't we'd get beaten up, chased, smacked up, whatever, called names. So when we were young we were very proud to call ourselves Bangladeshis because we were under attack.
Annabella
0:00:50
Yeah.
Jay
0:00:51
And we feel like, you know, this is who we are and we're going to go around saying it. But obviously now I'm a lot older. Overall, yes I am British because I know the language here, the food here, everything here. This is what I've been brought up to. Not necessarily the Bangladeshi culture.
Annabella
0:01:09
So we made a lot of progress in terms of racism.
Jay
0:01:13
Racism will never go away, let's be honest.
Annabella
0:01:15
Do you still experience it?
Jay
0:01:17
Some of times it's subtle, before Brexit it did feel like it was subtle, but after Brexit it was open again. It's going to fluctuate. Racism will never go away because, you have to understand, a lot of people have this British colonial idealism in their head. A British person only sees British history, they don't see anything else. So, you know, I'm not saying everyone's racist but there are elements of racism out there that will never go away and the Black person in this world has always been persecuted for since the beginning of time and that will carry on, that will never stop. A Black person will always have a disadvantage. There's racism within colours, within within origins, even within my community, a darker skinned person will be called names, maybe as a joke, maybe as a hate thing.
Annabella
0:02:10
Yes.
Jay
0:02:11
But that will never go away.
Annabella
0:02:16
It's called colourism in many ethnic groups. - Yes. - Many adults, they...
Jay
0:02:18
It's subtle racism and it's going to stay forever. I'm sorry to say that, but racism will never go away. When I was young, obviously we've touched on this, well there was lots of racism, and so we valued our community a lot more. It came to a point where it got so dangerous in the early 90s, we had to run away because we were being called names. I was very young, you know, lots of parents would hear stories, would get abused and spat at. But this all came to a change. I'd say, I won't say fully changed, but around 97 when Mr Blair won the election, I think Labour Party at that time meant diversity, lots of cultures, women's rights and everything. We had a lot of, you know, women MPs, lots of coloured MPs. So it was a sign of hope that racism won't last forever. And then yeah, I think overnight from 97/98 this country took a positive turn, slowly we did start feeling safe. Racism did go down I think. I'm not going to say it went away, we felt safer. So we knew our younger siblings are not going to go through what we went through in schools and in colleges. Because I remember when I was in college, if there was a group of White kids in the corner, we would not go through them, we would go the opposite way. There were many occasions I had to run away because I knew if I go through them they would beat me. My dad had the same thing in the 70s, lots of skinheads around. So by late 90s racism was at an all time low, I think the country had a whole different, probably social values. And then obviously we were all, we were enjoying Tony Blair's time, four or five years, or maybe I think he had a second term as well, I'm not sure. And then the Iraq War happened, and that really hurt the community in Tower Hamlets, because because Iraqis have nothing to do with Bangladeshis, it's a whole different culture but religiously we were bonded, we were one. So as a Muslim it's our duty to help one another. That doesn't mean if one does it wrong you go and help them, no, you have to still be just. Within the community we have to be just. If someone has wronged we correct it, we fix it. We have to find ways of mending things. So when the Iraq war happened, the Muslim community in Bangladesh, it really hurt us because we couldn't do anything. People said go and do protest and go and write to your MPs but none of that mattered. Eventually they went to war. And I think a few years before that we were hearing things of terrorism because I never knew what terrorism was and unfortunately this was labelled with Muslims. So all my life everything is good as a Muslim, Bangladeshi, all good. Next thing you know, terrorism. So now there are people calling at me, instead of in the early, sorry, 80s and 90s, they would call me Pakis. They are calling me Taliban or Bin Laden on the streets because I've got a beard. So that was a really, another really bad phase in the 2000s and I couldn't understand where is this hate coming from? What have I done so wrong? Yes there was the bombings in different places all around the world the 9/11, but that was not a reflection on us British Bangladeshi Muslims but we felt like we were targeted and the Iraq war, lots of people were not happy about it I think that's the downfall of Mr Blair himself I don't want to go into details but we strongly believe it was an unjust war. And to this day everyone is still angry about it. We still have feelings.
Jay
0:06:54
Even the war going on in Syria. We cannot do nothing about it. We just watch ordinary civilians dying or being made homeless. I'm only mentioning the ones you see in the news, but there are so many other countries, there are conflicts going on within cultures, within religions, civil wars, it's just too painful. And I don't see, I mean, who is going to sort this out? That's the question. Nobody is going to sort this out, nobody is going to fund it. I mean I'm very brutal in this. The West is not interested in certain parts of the world. They're only interested in countries where they have a financial benefit, where there is resources or something else. But we know there are problems all around the world. So it's very hypocritical of the West to be the police of the world. You know the whole UN and NATO, for me it's all rubbish. It's a setup that benefits them and they don't take the whole world as a singular way of looking at it. So how do we change that? Mentality, people's brains, young people, you have to teach them history properly. Not only World War II history, in this country they just bombard you with everything you learn about World War II. Primary school, secondary school. We need to change their mentality, they need to understand there are other cultures in the world and those cultures have their own history they need to learn the history of other cultures the whole of the African nation the Asian nations so they can be a bit more understanding towards foreigners because we're on the end of I think Brexit has ended but we're still feeling a bit of hate now the big deal is migrants. Push the boats away. But we don't question why. Why are they coming here? What's the source origin of them coming here? Why are these people risking their lives, men, women and children to come here? What has happened to their country, to their village, to their culture, for them to make that decision to travel dangerously and take a risk? We're always, the media is always spinning, the politics is always spinning because nobody wants to do a research on why this is happening. Because if you start doing the research you will point out that the West is involved in Cold Wars with different countries and they're all financially backing one another and civilians in the middle are getting caught. And there's no end to this. So it's heartbreaking but I need the next generation to understand what is going on in the world and to make better decisions in the future.
Julie’s Story by Val - Swadhinata Trust
Julie
0:00:00
I was born in Stepney in Mile End Hospital in 1968 in London. My parents were living here in Tower Hamlets at the time. I'm their first child and their first daughter, the only daughter. And I can't remember where we were living at the time. Somewhere in Spitalfields, Bangla Town now, as it is known. I think from what I remember or been told is that my parents were sharing a flat with his cousin. His cousin had a flat in Chicksand House which is in Spitfields area of Tower Hamlets where I live now and it was number 42 Chicksand House and my parents were renting a room there from him and his wife and it was one of the flats that people came to when they first arrived in England. My father had been here since 1962 and he first went to Birmingham where a lot of Sylhetis went if they had a connection and he stayed with his cousin there actually, his female cousin, who was married to a mixed race Bengali and English man. His father had married a white English woman and settled here in England in the 50s. So my father spent the first six months of his life in Birmingham and then think because of a lack of opportunities or whatever he decided to come to London and stayed with his male cousin in Tower Hamlets and got work. After a few years he returned to Bangladesh and married my mother and then she came with him in 1966. then I was born in 1968. So we've lived in town all my life really. My father worked as a machinist in the rag trade and he was in and out of work all his life, working in the East End, working in ladies fashion I think it was, doing piece work so you'd get paid for whatever you worked. We'd sometimes bring this work home. We had an industrial sewing machine at home and he did some work at home. My mum also supported him with that. But she was mostly a housewife and a mother. And then she had two more children, my brothers, we grew up, after they were in temporary housing in Bethnal Green for a short time, we grew up in Globe Town, which is a neighbourhood in Tower Hamlets. And I went to Globe Primary School from the age of about six, I think it was. We waited until my brother could also go to school, so we would go to school together. lived on a council estate, the Digby Estate in Globe Town and it was walking distance to the school. And then after Globe school I went to Morpeth Secondary School which was a mixed comprehensive in Globe Town. Those years were very pleasant really, from what I can remember and also the sort of stories that were told about living in the East End. It was quite a violent, environment for Bengalis. Various people had been attacked or murdered and there'd been a sort of a resistance from the community really after the murder of Altab Ali in 1978. And so that was a bit of a turning point for the community. We were really outside the sort of the action as it were in Brick Lane. were in Globe Town and Globe Town was predominantly white in those times and so we weren't in a Bengali neighborhood or sort of area as such but it was still quite hostile, it was even more hostile I would say in some ways because you never really knew what would happen if you came out your front door and go to school or go to the shops or you know adults and children would often be attacked in in streets so it was it was quite a difficult time for us growing up I remember.
Val
0:05:05
How do you think things have changed in the area?
Julie
0:05:09
Well we're not the only ones doing what we're doing so that's really good so what we've done is we've created an environment where other people also feel comfortable about running projects which engage with local communities, looking at heritage and culture and looking at different aspects of it. So there's a real diversity of that because before there wasn't many people doing anything like this that was really looking at a particular ethnic minority community's experiences and how it related to Britain and the kind of contributions that people have made. And so I think what it's done is create an environment which has really encouraged individuals and organisations to flourish and thrive doing this kind of work. There's a lot more diversity about it in a way that I hadn't even thought of. So there's people doing different aspects of it, working with young people or you know women or different groups that wouldn't have happened 20 years ago. There's still I would say a challenge around sort of of that kind of work because it's really prone to a lack of funding or people not having the time to do it. It really takes dedication from lots of people who volunteer their time and to stick with it through difficult, challenging times as well because it's not always been easy to do what we're doing. However, I think because we're the kind of people that would do it regardless whether there is support or not, I think it helps working together with people who actually want to do similar things, want to find that there's things that make them feel alive by working in the cultural heritage sector in a way that really brings out the less-known stories and histories of people's experiences and it adds to the stories of the rest of the country that people wouldn't know about otherwise. And we're currently in the middle of something called South Asian History Month which is an initiative that's been started by someone in the north or some people in the north and it's highlighting South Asian histories and stories during this month of July and August which would never have been before, would never have occurred. Although we've had Black History Month in October for a number of years, it's really interesting to see the diversity of that. We have Somali Week, or Somali Month as well, and we have lots of different types of cultures and identities being celebrated and sort of looked at. So I think that's what's changed, I think, the last 20 years. There's a much more diversity around people sharing their experiences and sort of valuing it in a way that wouldn't have happened before.
Michelle’s Story by Beth - Queen Elizabeth Olympic Park
Michelle
0:00:00
I mean, Canning Town was a very racist area, particularly in the 70s. And we had some really bad experiences with an Asian family who moved in to the street. And they would, I mean, we witnessed some really horrific things that happened to them. You know, being attacked and all sorts. And even just like when my mum used to collect for the street party, people would say, oh, you're not asking that family, are you? Things like that. So, and my dad obviously was like really sort of the, you know, wouldn't be a bystander and things like that. So he would go out if anyone was like, you know, attacking or whatever.
0:00:49
And at the time, like as a child, I used to think, oh God, I don't want him to do that because then we're sort of, we're going to be targets. But now I look back and I feel really proud that he did that. Because he would have been like, you know, a real, like outlier in that. That wouldn't have been something that lots of people would have done. And so it was like, as much as it like, was a really great place to grow up as a sort of a White person, and you know, it wouldn't have been great, that wouldn't have been everyone's experience.
Sardar’s Story by Suresh aka The Cockney Sikh - Solo Researcher
Sardar
0:00:00
It has changed quite a lot in respect of racism, I suppose, because when we came here in 1967 and in the early 70s, there was a lot of racial violence, racial abuse everywhere and so most of us have gone through quite hard times and so thanks God it's you know it's a little different now.
Suresh
0:00:42
And do you believe that your Sikhi helped you combat that?
Sardar
0:00:49
Well, you have to have faith and believe in yourself, I suppose, you know, it doesn't really matter what faith you are, but obviously being a Sikh, you know, you try to bind yourself by the principles of the Sikhi, but I suppose it goes as a human person rather than any particular faith, because all faiths teach you to be good, nothing else, to try to look within yourself.
Vera’s Story by Alexis - Deep Boroughs
Vera
0:00:00
I have experience, my son has experience, my friends have experience too. Is it? Yes, racism.
Alexis
0:00:08
Is it the way people talk to you or they just look at you?
Vera
0:00:13
Yes, the White people talk sometimes, or indirect, no directly. But for example, in the shop, when you go to the shop, the security sometimes follow me
Alexis
0:00:27
oh I see
Vera
0:00:28
when I go out to the door, the shop, the door have a bell I don't have, I have, I pay my, I paid my shop and any time the door, the door have a bell too. Exactly, yes. One day I stopped and I see many white people go out, the door, no have this, the bell. I know, it's the thing that's the tag on the bell. Yes, when I see Black people go out, or Asian people, the bell. And the system is having this problem, too. I work at one school, the girls' school. There, it's mostly Black girls, 80% it's big student, it's mostly Black. When you have a problem in the school, they call to the police. When police come to school, it is one male for talk to these girls. I feel so uncomfortable because why not talk to a woman police to talk for them? I don't feel... many girls felt so... - Intimidated. - Yes, because it's like it's no well. And many problem in the school I see, around the street, in the shop, it's uncomfortable. I try to talk about it against racism, against discrimination. Because people, all people need to live with dignity. And another problem to dehumanize, I think, is about the period. Many girls... - The period. - The period. Many girls have a problem. The pain in this time. The school don't care. No, you need to send your daughter for school because it's no problem. Why?
Alexis
0:02:59
Yeah, that's something else. Maybe they need to be looked at medically because some people do, some people black out and do all sorts of things, but you know, that's a big medical thing. I think I've heard before about period pains and period when it's the time of the month some people affects them badly but maybe there's something to be done about that don't know that's a woman problem as well not even a colour problem it's hard for women.
Vera
0:03:29
Yes but for for for Black, Black girls it's more hard I think the treatment is different.