Adrian’s Story By Ismena - Roma Support Group
Ismena
0:00:00
Hi, what's your name and where do you come from?
Adrian
0:00:05
My name is Adrian and I was born in Poland and I was raised here in England.
Ismena
0:00:10
How long have you been in the UK?
Adrian
0:00:13
Since 2002.
Ismena
0:00:14
Could you tell us about your experiences living in Poland?
Adrian
0:00:19
I've lived in Poland until I was 12 years old, so I went to school there, I've lived there with my mum, dad, my sisters. We had good experiences and we suffered racism [recording cuts out] - family life, and that was very good but outside it wasn't always nice.
Ismena
0:00:35
Upon the arrival to the UK, what was the thing that stood out to you the most?
Adrian
0:00:44
How much diversity there was here. In Poland we were used to, we were the odd ones out because there was no Roma, there was - there was only Polish people, and us. And when I came here when I came up there when we walked out of the airport and we saw how diverse it was I felt like we'll be able to fit in.
Ismena
0:01:04
Mm. Could you tell us how your culture had an impact on you and what was it like in Poland being Roma?
Adrian
0:01:10
Well being Roma in Poland wasn't always easy, as I said before. It had its ups and downs. And it also had an impact... you know, sometimes we regret being Roma, when bad things happen to you. We didn't really understand why. But I think we made the best of it and then we came here to England where it also had an impact on us because we were different. England wasn't really used to Roma people at the time when we came here.
Ismena
0:01:51
Was it a cultural shock for you?
Adrian
0:01:53
It definitely was. Everything was different to what we knew in Poland. We came from a small city, a small school, like I said only Polish people, Polish-speaking people, um, so when we came here it was a cultural shock because there were so many different people, a big city and - yeah.
Ismena
0:02:14
Was food good when you came?
Adrian
0:02:18
At the beginning it wasn't very good, it was very different Polish food is very rich, it's very heavy as well. The cooking is very traditional, so that's what we were used to. So when we came here we needed to find a way to fit in and also find our ways around the shops to get what we wanted and what we needed, which wasn't easy at the time.
Ismena:
Mhmm. Did the language barrier limit you in everyday life?
Adrian:
At the beginning it did, it did limit us a lot because we couldn't speak to anybody. In Poland I was considered one of the top students in school and when I came here I was told to sit in the back of the class and just follow what my cousin was doing and I felt like I couldn't do what I wanted to do. I wanted to do a little bit more but because of the language I couldn't. And also, just everyday life going to shops going around it was it was difficult, it was very difficult, but thank God we overcame that within a few months I think it took about six months where I was able to communicate with people freely.
Ismena:
And what is your favorite part about being Roma?
Adrian:
My favorite part about being Roma is our music. I love the music, I love how rich our heritage is. A lot of people don't know about it, they need to be educated about it. And I believe that there's so many good things in our culture that are not exposed yet. And the things that are shown and exposed are the things that we don't want to be known for. And because there's good and bad people in every culture and every race, and I think because we are so tight-knit and we don't let others inside into our culture, they don't know how rich our culture is. But, the thing I love the most is our music.
Ismena
0:04:18
Do you think you could live in Poland now?
Adrian
0:04:21
I think I could, I think with the experiences I have here and with the experiences I had living in Poland, I think I would be able to, it would be difficult at the beginning obviously to transition, but I think most likely we would be able to adapt and just live in Poland because we speak the language, we know, we have houses there, like we have a big house there, so it would be much easier I think than it was before.
Ismena
0:04:48
And did you suffer any racism in the UK?
Adrian
0:04:52
Slight, yeah, not to the extent that we did in Poland, but yeah, when kids found out that we were Roma in school, they would call us "gypsy", they would laugh, they would call us thieves and all kinds, and if we walked by, they would hold the pockets just to laugh, but it wasn't very heavy racism like it was in Poland. Poland was pretty, pretty heavy. Here was just slight. It was few kids that would make a comment or say something. Ismena: Mm. Last question, was it hard to settle down here in the UK? Adrian: Yeah in the beginning it was it was hard to settle down But we also didn't want to go back to Poland so we kind of had to do what we had to do and we had no other choice but to settle down. And England became good to us yeah.
Ismena
0:05:47
Thank you very much for your time and we appreciate it a lot. Thank you very much for your time and we appreciate it a lot.
Adrian
0:05:51
Thank you.
All Transcripts (13)
Alison and Jen’s Story by Alison - Queen Elizabeth Olympic Park
Alison
0:00:00
My children are mixed race, African mixed race. You were mixed race yourself, Anglo-Indian.
Jen
0:00:08
I would say it has massively changed. So when I was at school, there was only five or six of us from a mixed background. So we stuck out very much so. And I think especially my background is half Irish, half Anglo-Indian so it's not a very well known background as well. - Yeah. - But I would say then you know when my daughter went to school so I would have been 28 when she went to school and there were so many mixed children so I found it really refreshing. - Yeah. - And because you never know because my daughter is so fair you wouldn't even think she had Indian in her but she does.
Jen
0:00:53
Yeah. So it's how that system works and so yeah for everyone and then I know it was completely different for my mum and dad. My mum, my dad moved here when he was 16. Yeah. Moved here, East London - to Hackney. Yeah. So my dad's probably more Cockney than anyone like because he grew up
Alison
0:01:12
around that. Yeah, it worked in it all.
Jen
0:01:14
You know, so it's probably my dad we've got the Cockney rhyming slang from, even though he grew up in India. But, yeah, the difference for their life, like, you know, I always think what the boundaries they broke for us, and then the boundaries we'll break for our children, you know. I'll just tell you a quick story. My mum and dad, when they were first dating, and it wasn't, like, interracial couples wasn't really a known thing
Jen
0:01:42
yeah in the 60s and there was a film called Guess Who's Coming to Dinner? and it starred Sidney Poitier it was about an interracial couple yeah and my mum and dad had gone to watch it at the cinema and back then my mum said they used to play the national anthem at the end of a film and you had to stand up so she said at the end of the film, the lights have gone on, the national anthems come on, they've stood up, but she said there was people
Jen
0:02:11
in the cinema just looking at my mum and dad going, oh my God, what you have to go through and crying and everything like that. Like now, no one would bat them an eyelid watching a film like that.
Alison
0:02:21
But nobody notices, mixed race couples everywhere now. Yeah. It's not like, I mean, when I was young, so like 25 years ago, mixed race couples were not common. No.
Alison
0:02:37
And they would always be challenged. Yeah. People would always have an opinion about it and there were horrendous terms used back then as well.
Jen
0:02:45
It's like my mum and dad fought to be together, but then as their children, it's really when you're mixed and you say you get racially abused but you're getting racially abused by someone you're half of that person but they can't see it because of the color of your skin and it's like where do you stand you know what I mean because like you're, you can be attacked by both sides actually because for me even because my dad's Anglo-Indian so on both sides they didn't want the cultures
Jen
0:03:17
to mix you know but yeah an Anglo-Indian is a British Indian yeah so it was it was really hard and then for us we were getting judged on both sides you know right like now where my daughter I mean she doesn't look like she's got Indian in her but she proudly states that she has but she doesn't come up with as much of it but it is still there. - Yeah. - 100% is still there.
Jen
0:03:41
My nephews and my niece and their friend all went to Ireland a little while ago and my nephew is the darkest of colour, my niece and my other nephew took on the lighter side and my nephew who's of the darker colour was the only one stopped.
Alison
0:03:59
Really?
Jen
0:04:00
Yeah.
Alison
0:04:00
Wow.
Jen
0:04:01
Yeah, so it is kind of still there everywhere, but I think we have, from my mum, from me as kids, from us as kids, sorry, we have really, really, the world has changed a lot. It's still there, but it's not as much as when we were young girls. So we are moving in the right direction, hopefully.
Alison
0:04:32
And the only time I've ever experienced what that feels like is when I went to Ghana the first time with my partner. - So it was a flipped roll. - It was. And it was awful. He took me to this village where he grew up and his grandparents that lived. And they're all in a circle and around me and I'm sat next to my partner. But everybody's looking at me because a lot of them either have never seen a White person properly before. They also had some strange belief that we were superior because of back from the slave trade and that.
Alison
0:04:57
So when you're out in the villages out there, they kind of feel like you're superior. It was, I was so uncomfortable. It was awful. Really didn't enjoy that element of it. I can't believe, like, it would be hard to believe
Alison
0:05:10
that you're having to deal with that every day.
Jen
0:05:14
Yeah.
Alison
0:05:14
So, yeah.
Jen
0:05:15
It's really...
Alison
0:05:16
And I think it's, oh, we never really know what that feels like until that's - You're in there -
Jen
0:05:21
Because, as I said, like, growing up here, and I would say East London has always been diverse. Like, you got there and, you know, because we started it and so forth. But I remember going out with my friend, and it weren't that far away, it was only in Buckhurst Hill and I walked into the bar and I was the only Person of Colour and what you straight away think is, are they racist in here? Like, is someone going to come up and say something to me that's going to upset me and so forth? But now, I mean that was like 20 years ago, now if I walk in Buckhurst Hill it's got more diverse, not as diverse as Stratford I wouldn't say, but it's a little more diverse.
Jen
0:06:05
But then I experienced it when I went to America. So yeah, when I went to Orlando with my partner, my partner's White, and we went to, I can't even think where it was, and I was the only Person of Colour, and so my partner's like, you know, with us who are all mixed all the time and then so he said to me it's really strange that I've seen you look like a little bit uncomfortable yeah and I said I'm not uncomfortable I feel like I can be anywhere I want to be but it's the fact that if someone's come up and being racist to me how would I then handle it you know
Jen
0:06:41
yeah because I would be very upset for someone to do that so yeah it's still weird that you think like I'm nearly 50 and it's still weird that I can walk in somewhere and be quite wary. But that's been put into you since you were a kid though, that's not going to go away, that's how the world was when you were growing up. And all I want is for like your kids and my kids and my grandkids to not ever feel like that.
Alison
0:07:06
Yeah.
Jen
0:07:07
Because it's horrible that at 50 I still have to think like that and I don't want and I'm hoping that the world is changing for them. - Yeah, I'd like to hope so.
Althea’s Story by Lynette - Badu Digital Hub
Althea
0:00:00
My dad came when he was 17 or 18 from Dominica. He came on a boat. And my mum came by herself when she was 13. She had a long journey here by herself on a boat. So they came when they were very young. My dad obviously a lot older. And he came to meet his brothers who were already here working. My mum came to be with her mother in Leicester and her dad, who were already living in Leicester. And the two of them met in London when she was 18 at a party with him and his brother and her and her cousin who are still married to this day. So yeah, the two pairs went out and met up, met each other and yeah, bingo. That's how it happened. So I came here very young. I don't remember much about my dad's journey here. My mum's journey here was amazing. Not sure if I've got time to tell that story, but...Can I?
Lynette
0:00:54
Yes, of course.
Althea
0:00:56
So my mum came on a boat. She was 13 and she was by herself and she was very, very seasick. And when she got on the boat, one man actually saw to her, who was very, very kind and very, very nice, and he made sure that she was OK, that she got tissues, that she'd go to her room at the right time, come out and have dinner at the right time, and that she was okay. And he looked after her for a whole, I think it was between seven and ten day journey to the UK. And then he said to her when she got here, who's going to take you when you get off the boat? And she said, some people are coming to meet me, because as yet she didn't know anybody here. So he said, okay, I'll walk out with you and make sure that you get to the right family and as he came off the boat and handed over my mum to the family lo and behold it was the same family he's actually my uncle he was married to my auntie and they didn't know this he's 95 years old to this day and still going and we still see him and he's like a granddad to me really so this total stranger that turned out to look after her, turned out to be, you know, the best person in the world and made sure she was okay and handed her over to the family.
Lynette
0:02:11
What's his name? We need to know.
Althea
0:02:12
His name is Thomas Henderson. - Oh, Amazing. - He's from Dublin, he's got three kids.
Lynette
0:02:13
Oh, that's wonderful. That's a really fantastic story. So would you say, you know, growing felt in those younger years, a part of the community as a whole?
Althea
0:02:28
Definitely. East London's got such good vibes and such good people, happy people. No matter the struggle, there's always a laugh. There's always a togetherness aspect. Yeah, I just feel like, East London to me, has shaped me to make me who I am, that bubbly, happy, community person. I feel like I've gained so much by working and living in Hackney. I wouldn't want to leave.
Beatrice’s Story by Eileen - Carpenter’s Community
Eileen
0:00:00
Do you feel that you've always had a good relationship with your parents and do you still feel that way now?
Beatrice
0:00:06
Yeah.
Beatrice
0:00:07
I think I do have a great relationship with them. I have a lot of respect for them. You know, I love them dearly. I think we are very different in a way that I was brought up in a...
Beatrice
0:00:20
Excuse me.
Beatrice
0:00:21
..in an environment where... there's all these opportunities, possibilities, it's very different to the way they grew up. And they migrated to France to better their lives, that was gonna be better financially, and that was creating essentially a better future for their family and before me and my sister came along. So, yeah, we have... I sort of see that they... My parents and a lot of people in their generation, especially if you're an ethnic minority, you're almost in survival mode a lot of the time. You're trying to make sure, you come to a country, you don't have a settled status, for example. You have to prove all these things to be here, to prove that you have the right to be in a country. And I think I see the difference in the fact that that's not something I have to think about. Yeah, so, and I understand that, so I think I have a lot of understanding for them, and they try to understand me, so it's a bit different, but yeah, I think in that respect it's different, but we do have a good relationship, you know, I speak to them almost every day, even though we're not in the same city.
Eileen
0:02:04
You were saying also earlier about, it doesn't sound to me as though you were very happy living in France, it sounds as though you were happier when you moved into this country because you mentioned that people are more tolerant?
Beatrice
0:02:19
I think that was more for my parents, more for my dad. I was happy in France, I really was. I was happy because I didn't know, I sort of didn't know any better, didn't know, sort of, you know. Coming here did open my eyes, but I think there is a stark difference because I've been back to France since. I go back on holidays and things, and I have family still living there, lots and lots of family. So for me, I do see the difference in the way, like sort of the mentality. Like I said, yes, people are more tolerant here. A lot of people don't realize that you can just sort of live a bit freer here in England rather than in France. It's more like you can do what you like, but there's going to be a lot of judgement that comes with it.
Eileen
0:03:22
I see, right. Okay. But you don't find that here, really? - No, no. - People don't tend to judge?
Beatrice
0:03:31
No, not in the same way. And I think, you know, it's people... I'm talking about people that I know, you know, family and stuff, And I think, you know, it's people... I'm talking about people that I know, you know, family and stuff, and living in a certain community. So I think here, I just don't feel that same.
Black Pride by Vox Pop - Queen Elizabeth Olympic Park
Voice 1
0:00:00
This is a Black Pride, UK Black Pride, which is a very big event for we black people, to come and show our happiness, that we are really happy in this country, as a gay person, we are free to socialize ourselves, to enjoy ourselves with our colleagues, and this one is different from London Pride or other Britain's Prides, this one is purely for black people all over the world. You can come from America, you can come from Canada, you can come from anywhere.
Voice 2
0:00:37
Welcome to the Voices of East Bank Project. Here you can hear some of the stories from London's Black Pride in 2023.
Voice 6
0:00:43
All right, my name is Abe Kibwanuka. I'm originally from Uganda and I've been in this country for the last, I think, 19 years and then I left my country, Uganda, because of my sexuality.
Voice 8
0:00:57
My name is Deborah. I am a mother of three. I have three children. I seeked asylum in the UK. Because of the background of my country, I'm coming from Uganda.
Voice 5
0:01:11
I'm non-binary. I use they/them pronouns. I'm Ghanaian, born and raised in London. My parents moved from Ghana to London in the 90s. And then we've always been based here and stuff and have family here and whatever. We speak Twi at home, which is one of the main languages in Ghana, but there's loads of different languages in Ghana. My mum is Fanti, so she also speaks Fante, which is a different language, but they both speak Twi fluently. So at home we speak Twi and I'm like actually like learning to speak it now. They like spoke it like as we were growing up but I've like recently taken more of an effort to like actually like learn how to speak it. So I've been taking like lessons and just like alongside like being like oh I want to speak it like with my parents. It's interesting because like in Twi for example there's not like pronouns don't really indicate somebody's gender. So if, for example, you were to say something like, she has eaten, so like, wadidi. The wadidi doesn't indicate what the person's gender is. So you could say like, if you wanted to say like that, you could say like, okor ajuma, like they've gone to work. But it wouldn't indicate if the person you're talking about is a girl or a boy or has any specific gender. Which is really interesting about the specific words, there aren't specific words for gay or lesbian or non-binary, you just say gay and lesbian, non-binary, bisexuals, etc. And it's interesting because it's also like, I guess it's like an indication that gender and sexuality are just fluid, sort of historically, and colonisation came along and then enforced binaries of gender and stuff. But also, it's like a sort of pick-up language that goes along.
Voice 6
0:02:50
For me, using queer I feel like is more representative of me even though that's where this historically had been had quite negative connotations. I think reclaiming that word for our community is quite good because a lot of people don't identify with being gay and they don't identify with what that means specifically. What I just touched upon now about pride being very like gay men who are all hunks and topless and whatever doesn't represent our entire community. I guess there's a significant portion of what our community is, but usually it's the ones that are underrepresented or discriminated against. In terms of intersectionality, the more gentrified a place is, generally it tends to be more open and tends to be more welcoming, at least for the gay community. So, for me specifically, I can feel very Asian, more South Asian, in East London but I can't be gay. Whereas in the East Village where there's an entire population of gay people, the residents are gay. I can be very gay but I feel very weird being queer or gay. So I don't think there's space there that helps both identities or makes space for that. (Voice 7): At that time the UK government wasn't protecting LGBT asylum seekers. They had that discretionary probability test that you have to prove beyond reasonable doubt that you can't pretend to be straight to avoid persecution. So, I mean, I had to appeal, and then from 2003 up to 2010, when I won my case. It took me like almost seven years to win my case. While I was in detention centre I realised that the UK government was not there to protect genuine people. It was more of numbers, how many people have we protected, how many are we deporting. So I decided to start an organisation called OutRun called African LGBTI to support my friends who are here in London, who are going through a lot somewhere.
Voice 8
0:04:50
Because where we come from you don't express yourself. You already have enough in your head. You almost want to run mad. You think a lot. They should really make it so easy for us so that we can really come out and be proud of who we are. And we know we are safe here. Now we've been protesting -activating ourselves, like showing ourselves we want to show our rights and we really need freedom. So if we really get, if they can really help us out and we get freedom here, like we can be free because now I know I can't go back home. Yeah, I can't go back home so they should really make it so easy for us. I can't go back home because I, they know I am who I am and they are really hunting for me. So it's really, I think it's really safe to be here. If they are really saying they cannot really grant me a say, I would rather die in prison or thrown me anywhere or in water or anything, but I'm not ready to go back.
Voice 6
0:05:46
I guess because it's the more inclusive Pride. Pride generally is quite cis-gendered, very white, very middle class. And also, growing up here, I would never imagine this being here, So it's a nice sort of like, almost moment of two things being unified. My childhood and like how I feel about it. (Voice 9): Living here as a sensitive, feminine boy, it was very tough. A lot of people basically abused me for just existing and you know, I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy, but it made me become the person, the powerful person I am today and I can use my voice to guide all the sensitive, delicate, feminine young boys to find the power inside of them because I used to feel powerless. I couldn't do anything, I couldn't defend myself. Everywhere I went, life, and people were just like, push me and push me and push me. And until I was, you know, my back was to the corner and I had to like, let the tiger out. (Next voice): I mean, for me, I've been coming to Black Pride since 2009, when we are still meeting in Regents Park. It was a small group of people, like over a hundred people. So I've grown up with it, like, and it was interesting, I mean, being among black, queer people who are free to do whatever they want to be. It was the first time I saw... I mean I used to go to London Pride, but it wasn't like Black Pride. It was more like commercial, like an emerging being. I remember one day I went there and then we were marching and people behind us were Serco, the Home Office contractor for deporting asylum seekers and guarding. You know those who are guarding education centres. But you are marching when they are guarding. And then you are thinking, why next to me anyway, you guys. So, but coming to Black Pride, I mean, for us it's like you are at home, you can do whatever you want to do, you feel at peace. You meet many friends actually. I have met many friends who I haven't seen for years and years. You meet them here.
Voice 8
0:08:07
African Equality has really helped me so much to come out. I was in a shell. Like, I could not talk about myself in the first place. I could not talk about myself. I could not express myself. But with African Equality, I've come out to know that I can be who I am. I can feel so free. I really enjoy the time I come out when we have gatherings like now like Black Pride
Voice 5
0:08:30
You've got UK Black Pride, you've got like different community like charities There's like lots of I'm like realizing as I was growing up There's actually lots of like Black and Brown like charities that or charities Black and Brown people that actually support LGBTQ+ people and families and you come to UK Black Pride. It's really obvious and you're like, oh, it's like all here. And I think you can like find that community and like, you know, if like your parents, for example, it might take them a little while to come around, but I think even within that, you can like find friends and stuff by your community. So yeah.
Final voice
0:09:01
You have to put your foot down and let them know, like a tiger, just roar, like, no, I deserve to be here. I deserve to take up space and I deserve to be proud.
Caribbean Poem by Discover Children’s Story Centre
0:00:00
I'm born in England but my heart aches for Dominica. It is sweet like the middle of May and has lots to explore. Mangos there are delicious. The cravings crash into my body like waves do the sandy shores. Being back feels like the aeroplane never flew through it, like it never existed, like the gentle home was an illusion. Newham may not be the same as Dominica but it is my home. My mind is always in Jamaica, it's where my heart wants to be for Jamaica holds a special place just there waiting for me. England is great, its eyes luring more and more people in. It's great, it's a great honour being here. There is so many opportunities for you, waiting here, in England.
Eden’s Story by Althea - Badu Digital Hub
Althea
0:00:00
Why did you agree to do the oral history? What's so important about it that you thought that you needed to do this?
Eden
0:00:05
Because I think people need to hear how I lived, what I went through. Because it's going to give them an insight into how everybody lives. Not everybody lives the same, but you will see similarities in anyone else's life. You need to hear other experiences before you can judge your own. My favourite thing about Hackney would be, it would be the market, Dalston market.
Althea
Oh right.
Eden
Yeah, I don't know, you can walk through the market on any day and you will see the same thing you'd see yesterday. Like the market hasn't changed since I've been there since I was little. It's never changed. It's always the same people, the same faces, same music, the same shops. It's always been the same.
Althea
0:00:57
So tell me a little bit about the market. Is this Ridley Road?
Eden
0:01:00
Yeah, Ridley Road Market.
Althea
0:01:01
Tell me a little bit about this market that attracts you so much.
Eden
0:01:04
Because you could go to the market and you could see every culture before you walk out the other side. You could start at the side where the train station is. By the time you get to the other side you would have seen every culture that would have to do with black culture, that would have to include anything black culture. You would see from Africa to Caribbean, you would see everything by the time you get to the other side of the market.
Althea
Oh that sounds like it's a really fun place to be.
Eden
0:01:32
I got lost in Ridley Road Market when I was four or five. I went to the shopping centre because you know there's a big gumball machine where Matalan is. I went there with my little 5/10p and my mum was still in the market, I came back to the market, could not find my mum anywhere. The market lady snitched on me and my mum came to pick me up and took all my gumballs.
Althea
So it wasn't worth it?
Eden
0:02:11
It wasn't worth it.
Hardial’s Story by Suresh aka The Cockney Sikh - Solo Researcher
Hardial
0:00:00
Nah I couldn't move, I couldn't move. The way I've been brought up is just, I love the area. Okay, it's not great 100%, obviously every area has their flaws, but I'm not that type of person that would just end up moving and be happy now. I wouldn't leave East London.
Suresh
0:00:16
What, me and you are exactly on the same line there. I love East London. But yeah, I probably love East London different from you. You tell me, now I'm 62, so you tell me, what do you love about East London? know the food, going out, the people, the shops, the just talk me through and then we'll move on to the good one later.
Hardial
0:00:39
What I like about East London is where I am where I live in I've got everything there I've lived right opposite I've got the park I've got schools everywhere and I know the area so much I would hate to go somewhere new and then have to adapt again to that environment and stuff. So yeah, East London's good for me.
Suresh
0:01:04
And you're in Newham, yeah? What about shopping and going, you know, buying things and the community and people?
Hardial
0:01:12
Yeah, that's pretty like, I got one side, I got the Asian Bazaar Green Street, all the Indian shops, all everything. Then I got Westfield, all the other shops and stuff. But to be honest, I hate shopping. There's got a stage where somebody says shopping, I want to get out of there. So yeah, but it's alright. You can find anything where I'm living currently. everything's dead. Like, it'll be just like, just do as much as you can to help the community actually. As much as you can, even if it's a small amount, you do it, you feel good about it after, and automatically life will like fall into place. That's what I'm trying, hoping that will happen. So I'm just doing as much as I can to be part of the community, to be a good Sikh. Okay, not everyone's perfect, but we try our best. So yeah, that's about it.
Suresh
0:02:14
It's one cockney to another, right? You know, we got a tense, you know, an invert inside us, like to get on with people. You know, it's very like, Sikhi, know, I see it as very Punjabi. Can you speak, you know, has it, cockney in East London kind of relates to my Sikhi and my Punjabi. Is that the same with you?
Hardial
0:02:34
It's kind of, yeah, because we, when I meet somebody new, I treat them like I've known them for years. And that's how we are as well in our Sikh culture. We like, we'll see people doing, giving Seva, feeding the homeless. that all relates around how we should all be to help, help one another. It is a difficult world out there, but if you get a little bit of help from somebody or you help someone, it makes a big difference.
Monna’s Story by Joe - Solo Researcher
Monna
0:00:00
I had this pride, it filled me with pride because I was looking around and there was like murals for like working class, like heritage and East London predominantly has been such a passing of trade and culture that, yeah I'm proud, I'm proud of being working class and I'm proud of being from East London because we fight for what we believe in and we, and it's been consistent and that being within you is like, it's such an intrinsic essence that you can't really get from anywhere else. My main aim for my work is I want to protect marginalised voices, voices that aren't heard or often given space. And this particular archive in the University of East London, how it began was in 2006 the Refugee Council donated their archive to UEL and that was mainly because UEL had humanities, refugee studies, anthropology, it had a very big department and so students were using this information and what we have in the archive is an array of material from different refugee camps and processes and policies and interactions with British culture. So for example one of the first things I found in our archive is a Labour policy document of how to help refugees start businesses, which if we were to compare to our current climate, that wouldn't even be in place. Or for another example of the Armenians in Iran, for example. I get to learn about these things, which is really amazing to be placed in this archive. But for me, how it really began is when I went to Tower Hamlets archives and I was redacting names from Edith Ramsey's archive. And basically what that meant is that the material was so old, the public could no longer touch it. But due to the Data Protection Act in 1998, having names in archives with potential living descendants of these people, because they hadn't asked their consent, we had to take out their names. But I had a problem with it, mainly because when I was reading this material, so Edith Ramsey was a community activist. She's a Presbyterian. And she did great work. She worked with prostitutes, she worked with the seafarers, and reading her personal letters with these people talking about Adam, and the Bible with each other, and how that cross-cultural, how Islam and Christianity crossed over together. Reading about how she was talking to a Somalian hostel owner. So hearing that a Somalian in those days was a business owner, hearing her talk about how she helped a prostitute run away from a priest that wasn't very kind to her. And I read names like Mohammed, I read names like Ali, and that for me was empowering because I saw Brown men names in British history and that was really powerful for me. But then in the same moment I had to redact their names. And so I kept thinking about the children in Tower Hamlets and like how when they come to see the archive they're going to see their names in the archive, but now they won't understand the context. And so it was quite difficult, but you know, I got to write an essay about it, but obviously it led me here because it meant that I knew what I had to do. I knew that I had to, part of my aim is to make sure that I protect history like that because you know we are parts of British history and we deserve to be here as well.
Joe
0:03:41
Are there any phrases you remember hearing or which language do you remember talking in?
Monna
0:03:46
Interesting, so this is something I think about every day now, right now, because I don't actually know my mother tongue Punjabi, which is really sad for me. That was mainly because I grew up in a single parent household, so my mum didn't really have anyone to speak to. And because also my mother was a single woman, when we went to the Gurdwara or when we went to the temple, it was... my mum didn't feel comfortable. She had four girls and she didn't have a man next to her. So I didn't really interact with my culture in that way, which is why Hare Krishna became easier in a way. So I went to Hindi class at the local Hindu temple, but didn't feel comfortable there. My mum spoke with Queen's English because she went to a Catholic school and in her experience she was actually told to stand in the sun if she spoke Punjabi or Hindi. So she actually learned more Punjabi when she came to this country when she was 17. My dad was also born in Uganda and grew up in, born in Kenya, grew up in Uganda and he came to Wolverhampton when he was 11. So he didn't really know much about his own culture, he's never been to India. So there was this big gap. So I predominantly hear English, even to this day. I am desperately learning Punjabi, but I have such a foundation in Hindi that it's quite hard to then translate that into Punjabi because they are intelligible, the script is different and the alphabet is different, but if I were to hear it I could potentially pick it up, but not really. And I'm ashamed at how little I know about it. It's very guilt-tripping. My mum feels very guilty, but it's just something I'm going to have to pick up. I don't know. Yeah.
Ismael’s Story By Rozina - Newham Community Project
Ismael
0:00:00
I lived in Newham for more than half of my life. Actually two-thirds of it by now. This is where I went to a primary school. This is where I went to a secondary school. This is where I had my first crush. This is where I had friends who mean so much to me. I met people who mean so much to me. This is the place where I met my fiancé. Interestingly enough, she lives in the same road that I used to live when I first moved into this country. So, all of these things, it's amazing for me.
0:00:40
And Newham is where my heart is. And despite all its flaws, I feel like that's the place I'm going to call home regardless.
Layla’s Story by Ansar - Swadhinata Trust
Layla
0:00:00
Joi Bangla was a, the actual Joi Bangla phrase is what Sheikh Mujib said after the war of independence and that's what we as Bengalis will say as a way of saying victory to Bangladesh. friends of mine were sort of doing a bit more sort of, you know, putting together various sort of activities around Bengali identity and how it does or doesn't resonate with the then Bengali population of the area. And, you know, I very much see myself as British and you know Cockney or from East London or whatever. At the time it was very much like I'm British but I have a sort of makeup that's London, that's Bengali, that's all those things and it was the first time that really I was born in Bangladesh, but I came here when I was really young. My parents spoke Bengali at home or Sylheti. And so I spoke Sylheti. And we ate Bengali food, but they didn't drill or instill this Bengal-ness in us in any sort of way. So it was quite sort of different, unusual novel, perhaps just to sort of have this introduced. So I kind of really embraced it. And so what was my role, I guess? So I embraced it by sort of saying, I want to be part of this band that's being established. Joi Bangal Banned and it was a group of people who were dancing so I was one of the dancers and a DJ or yeah a DJ and a sort of music movement that sort of went with it. We felt quite radical at the time. Well, I absolutely loved music, loved all sorts of music, you know, very much into my pop music, watching Top of the Pops, Motown, really, really into my music. And so this was an opportunity, and sort of very different twist or edge to it, which was the Bengali element, and mixing it with the Western sort of sounds. Again, sort of that was probably around the same time after sort of hip-hop was really, really exploding as well on the scene. So there was this, there was that movement really taking off. And it felt like we were doing a sort of mini version of it in the East End of London. And that's probably, it's really hard to remember all the sort of reasons for doing it because it's what, 36 odd years ago. But the sort of driver, the motivator was, it felt exciting and there was also an element of this is something that allows me to sort of mix with some new people, go to sort of experience new things, so you'd be rehearsing for an event, you'd go to different venues and that was really nice because I sort of always had a really an open sort of upbringing where we constantly do things like I said my parents would take us out so it was a sense of adventure looking back now and it was a real sense of adventure something new and I did really, really feel like I'm really proud of my heritage and hadn't really explicitly thought about it. So that was, you know, the Bengali heritage. Yeah, I think there was no doubt there was this Bengali heritage and this East London heritage, but there was nothing that really cemented that in any way and I in school I mean from all my friends I remember at the time I was probably with the one who sounded I mean we were all Cockneys but but but I also had lots of freedom compared to some of my Bengali friends I had so much freedom so I was probably a bit different in that regard and it was an opportunity that added to my already exciting life I felt, which was around sort of doing, you know, never sort of being limited. And I mean looking back now, you know, or looking at what youngsters from any background, you know nothing special but really at the time there was nothing like it so we were part of something really special.
Ansar
0:05:49
How was your band or performance received? How did it go down with the local community?
Layla
0:05:59
From everything that I can remember from the time, it went down really well. Bengalis particularly would go quite crazy and wild when we'd perform at events. So there was that element. I remember sort of building in London. It's an amazing institution and I performed there back in the 80s. You know I don't think many people can say that. So there were those kind of performances which would have probably more non-Bengali. And then there'd be the local Tower Hamlets or local in the area sort of festivals, events, which in Tower Hamlets, those events would have a really big Bengali sort of audience as well as others. And it was brilliant to just sort of get a really good, a really warm response from all those audiences. And being on stage and sort of performing, I guess, you know, why do people get into performing arts? There's a bit of sort of, you know, you like performing, you like the response you get, you want to be liked. And I think we were very much liked. from the Bengali sort of community, but and wider communities, would quite often quote Joi Bangla and Joi Bangal Banned as being sort of pioneers in sort of establishing a sort of sense of pride within the Bengali community. And we were seen as, you know, doing something new but doing it really well. So while sort of in this day and age, you can perform at so many different levels, and what we did was probably, you know, he was phenomenal. He was an excellent DJ, excellent mixer. And, you know, regardless of his ethnic background, you know, he's up there with the best of the best. So, and I think even to this day, he would be up there with the best of the best. So, you know, I think we had a really good product that at the time nobody else had and we fulfilled an objective that really did sort of stay with each of us who were involved right the an objective that really did sort of stay with each of us who were involved right the way through into our adult life.
Pamela’s Story by Alexis - Deep Boroughs
Pamela
0:00:00
Two things. First of all, seeing Roots in 1979.
Alexis
0:00:06
Roots the film?
Pamela
0:00:07
Roots the film. I think it was like a five-part miniseries. And it was the first time we as children saw, I would have been 10 years old, saw Black people before slavery took place. And that really shifted my thinking, because up until that point, the only time they talked about Black people was in a negative way. So prior to that, I think we had limited representation on television and on radio. So we may have had Alex Pascall, who is a journalist, and, you know, there were others who, Tony Cozier, for example. Tony Cozier was a cricketer, sorry, a commentator on cricket. But it wasn't until very late on that I realised he was actually a white man. But the way that he spoke, yeah, you know, my dad would have the radio listening to Tony Cozier's commentary and watch it on TV, you know, but everybody liked his commentary. So there was very little representation. And then you had people who came along, like Lenny Henry, who was doing a show called Opportunity Knocks. I'm not sure if you've heard of it, but it was like what you would call the X Factor today. It was the X Factor of the day, and he did really, really well. And it was one of those ones where you would pick up the phone, and, well, not me, but my parents would pick up the phone and ring the community to say, look, there's a Black person on television. If you, if you turn over the, the three channels that we had, you'll see a, you know. And other than that, it was, I can't remember the name of the programme, but they used to black up the black and white minstrel show. And they would, you know, you know, and that was probably the closest representation that you would have. Because even, even films like Tarzan, which was really popular. The Black people were savages. This is how they were portrayed. Ignorant, unintelligent, White savior syndrome with Tarzan who saves the day. Because Tarzan, he could even speak to animals and get them to cooperate in whatever he was trying to do. Notably we have Long John Silver, but again, Tonto was a man of very few words. So there was very, very little representation on television. And the difference is now, we have the introduction of especially Channel 4, when that came on board. So before that, we just had BBC One, BBC Two, and ITV. I don't think it was even called ITV, I think it was called LWT, London Weekend Television, and programming was limited, so there was a time when, you know, it finished at 11 o'clock, and that was it. So the difference today is, you know, you can always find something to watch. I did meet someone who was quite, I suppose, innative, is that the right word? And his name is Harry Comenbatch. And Harry Comenbatch was a youth worker based at the school. And there was also another teacher from Barbados, and his name was Eddie Griffiths, and he was my sociology teacher. And at 17 years old, they came up, it was International Year of the Youth, and they came up with a plan that they would take a cohort from Easton School to Barbados. And that was the first time it had been done in the borough. I think maybe in London there had never been school exchanges like that before. And he took, I was selected as one of the pupils to go, and he took, I think it was 15 of us, to Barbados. So I got to see the educational side of Barbados as well, and do all the, you know, the regular tours. My mum did take us places when I went when I was 12, but it was really about us seeing family and meeting family for the first time. So we used to sit on somebody's veranda this day, walk in the hot sun, sit on somebody else's veranda. But going back with the school meant we were able to go to the museum, to Harrison's Cave, which is an underground cave.
Alexis
0:05:06
I've been to Barbados, it was really nice. That's a long time ago, I don't remember, but you just mentioned that name, Harrison's Camp, it sounded familiar to me.
Pamela
0:05:16
Yeah, that's when you see all the stalagmites and whatever you call them. I wasn't really into geography, but my sister really appreciated all that kind of stuff, because she studied it here. So, yeah, I got to go with the school. We were based at a school called Common Mare, which is...
Alexis
0:05:34
What’s it called
Pamela
0:05:34
Common Mare?
Alexis
0:05:35
Common?
Pamela
0:05:37
Common Mare. Oh, okay. Which is one of the top schools in Barbados. It's produced at least one Prime Minister, David Thompson. And that really opened up my eyes then, because when the headmaster asked this young man, what do you want to be when you grow up, he said he wanted to be an astronaut. And nobody laughed. You know, I'm waiting, I'm looking around the room to see who is going to tear him down. And the teachers were like, no, actually, yeah, let's do this. And they had no cap on their expectations whatsoever. Whatever it is they wanted to do, they were supported by the school to be able to do it. And he ended up being a pilot, so he got into space, of sorts, but he was supported to do that. - So you saw that was difference between here and there? - Very much so. I saw, I can't describe it to you. Everything was Black. Everything was Black. Everybody was Black. Everybody was in the majority from the lowest to the highest. Some beautiful, beautiful houses. I remember one of my peers saying, they've got....
This Place by Discover Children’s Story Centre
0:00:00
This place. Good people live here, we connect with the roots of this place. I feel like I belong here, I feel safe, I feel comfortable. But it is a struggle, it's deteriorating. But, there's tall buildings, construction everywhere, sky high, Stratford is packed now.